In the south of Kazakhstan, surrounded high mountains, surrounded by greenery, is the city of Chimkent.
On its outskirts, in a workers' village, in a small, neat house, lived a widow, Anastasia Petrovna Derevyankina, with her 20-year-old daughter Valya. Mother and daughter deeply believed in God and were members of the local Christian community. Peace, love and harmony reigned between them. They were hospitable and responsive to the needs of others, and, in general, their entire lives were a living testimony of the redeeming power of Christ and His presence in their homes and hearts.
In a word, they would only live and rejoice in the grace of God. Yes, apparently Satan didn’t like this and wanted to destroy their happiness.
One Sunday morning, Anastasia Petrovna stayed at home to look after a sick neighbor, and Valya went to church. At the bus stop, a young man in an officer’s uniform approached her and politely asked:
– Excuse me, please, do you know where Polyarnaya Street is?
“I’m just going in that direction,” answered Valya, “and I’ll tell you where to get off.”
The officer thanked him, and at that time the bus arrived.
They started talking on the bus and the officer learned that the girl was going to church.
- Can I come with you? – he asked.
Valya looked at him in surprise and smiled:
– Not only is it possible, but maybe even necessary. It will be good for your soul.
– Do you think that a person has a soul?
– Are there soulless people? – she asked in turn.
“Hm... This is interesting...” remarked the puzzled officer. – Well, we’ll talk about this later... In the meantime, let’s introduce ourselves: my name is Igor.
- And I’m Valya.
Valya blushed and said nothing. She was ready to fall through the ground from embarrassment. Fortunately, the bus stopped and they got off near a house from which harmonious singing could be heard.
“This is our church,” Valya explained. - We're a little late. The meeting has already begun.
They entered and took the empty seats by the door. Igor attended such a meeting for the first time and listened with interest and watched everything that happened. He liked the singing, but when the preacher came to the pulpit, he became bored, and he was not interested in it. He was mainly interested in the girl for whom he came here. He occasionally glanced at Valya, who seemed to have forgotten about his presence and was listening attentively to the sermon.
And Valya, listening, prayed in her soul that the preacher’s words would touch Igor’s heart...
The young officer did not understand anything that was said, but he could not help but feel something special in the very atmosphere of this meeting. Some inexplicable feeling of tenderness arose in him, and at the same time he was sad, as a person becomes sad at someone else's holiday.
After the meeting, people approached him, greeted him, and invited him to come again. And in all this there was some kind of childish simplicity and sincerity. This was not just formal politeness to the visitor, but the genuine sincerity of honest, good people.
– How did you like our meeting? – Valya asked when they left.
– I think that this is a kind of entertainment that is not suitable for everyone.
Seeing the disappointment on Valya’s face, he hastened to add:
“Maybe next time I’ll understand more.”
They agreed to meet in two days to go to the meeting together again. Returning home, Valya told her mother about meeting Igor and his promise to be at the meeting again. Her mother admonished her:
- Look, Valya, pray to the Lord that He will give you strength, while preaching the gospel to others, to remain faithful to Him.
- Well, what are you talking about, mom? Certainly!
They prayed together and went to bed. But Valya could not sleep for a long time that night. She recalled the details of the meeting with the handsome officer, and an incomprehensible, sweet feeling crept into her heart. She looked forward to their next meeting with excitement, trying to explain this feeling by saying that for the first time she had the opportunity to lead a person to God.
Igor began to often attend their meetings, after which he accompanied Valya home, met her mother, was polite and behaved decently in all respects. They talked a lot about Christianity, but he had not yet shown any signs of approaching God. Lately, he has been making more and more frequent hints about the possibility of a wedding... These hints made Valya turn pale. She already loved Igor, but the thought that it could end in marriage frightened her, because... she knew that this would be a grave violation of the will of God. But she didn’t have the strength to stop meeting with Igor.
Anastasia Petrovna saw a change in her daughter, tried to convince her and even force her to stop dating Igor, but in vain.
They now prayed separately. The mother cried, seeing her helplessness to prevent her daughter’s retreat. Valya cried and was tormented in her soul, realizing that her mother was right. She repented before God and asked for forgiveness, but did not ask for strength to leave Igor. She believed Igor when he promised not to interfere with her attending church and never to embarrass her Christian feelings. Lately he stopped going to meetings, citing his official business, and he himself appointed the place and time of their meetings. On one of these dates, Igor decided to finally resolve the issue of marriage.
– What do you think, Valya, isn’t it time for us to think seriously about our wedding? We love each other... How long will we wait?
“You know, Igor, that the Word of God prohibits unequal marriages,” Valya said quietly, and her eyes filled with tears.
He put his arm around her shoulders and kissed her temple.
“But I’m not a stranger to you, but a friend.” I know your laws and rules and will not interfere with you in anything. I myself would not mind becoming like you and your believing friends, but much is still not clear to me.
“Let me think,” she replied.
- Well, okay, think about it, just not for very long.
Valya began to shun her friends and skip meetings. Their questions were unpleasant to her and attentive glances. She did not know how to lie, and she could not tell the truth about her emotional experiences.
The mother no longer said anything to Valya, but only prayed for her day and night, shedding bitter tears.
One evening, Igor unexpectedly came to the Derevyankins and, after briefly greeting Anastasia Petrovna, asked Valya to go out into the garden with him. He seemed agitated or upset about something, and Anastasia Petrovna did not ask him anything.
Valya threw a scarf over her shoulders and followed Igor. He immediately got down to business:
– Valya, today we must decide our fate. Three days later I am transferred to Leningrad. But, if you agree to marry me, I will be given a two-week deferment while we get married.
Valya turned pale and felt weak in her legs. Thoughts flashed through my head like lightning: “Let such marry, but only in the Lord... Do not love the world, nor what is in the world... Do not be unequally yoked with the unbelievers... What does light have in common with darkness?..” She said barely audibly :
– Igor, I love you, but the Word of God prohibits marriages of believers with non-believers. If only you would admit that you are a sinner and repent... But you don’t even believe...
“It is written in the Word of God: “Love your enemies,” he answered. - Am I really worse than an enemy for you? Where is your love? In three days I will leave and will probably never return to these parts again. You must decide: become my wife now or never.
Valya stood leaning against the door frame, not knowing what to do: violate the will of God or lose Igor forever. Both were scary. Finally she said:
- Let it be your way...
The wedding was scheduled for a week later. Igor took on all the troubles and expenses. Having said goodbye, the young people went their separate ways.
When Valya returned to the house, her mother had already gone to her bedroom to pray, and Valya quietly went to her room. Closing the door behind her, she, without undressing, threw herself onto the bed, burying her face in the pillow to muffle her sobs.
“Oh my God, what am I doing? - she thought with horror, like a person rushing into an abyss, no longer able to stop. - What is happening to me? Why am I doing this?.. Oh, my dear Lord! Forgive me if you can. I exchanged You for earthly happiness. I rend the wounds on Your holy hands again. I have retreated from You, dear Jesus, I am leaving You forever and I know that there is no return for me, because I am giving myself to another...”
So, lying on her bed and bursting into bitter tears, Valya prayed that night, saying goodbye to Jesus.
Having learned the next day about her daughter’s decision, Anastasia Petrovna said nothing and since then has withdrawn into herself. Only before God did she pour out her grief in tears. She was kind to Valya and helped her in preparations for the wedding, but in her heart it was as if she was preparing for her daughter’s funeral.
The wedding was celebrated at Igor’s apartment. There were many guests - all Igor's friends. It was noisy and fun: congratulations, toasts, wishes for happiness... There were none of Valya’s acquaintances. She felt alien and lonely here. She wanted to give up everything and run, run away from here... Only the presence of Igor nearby kept her from doing this.
And on the other side of the city, in an empty house, a grief-stricken mother knelt and prayed to God to save her lost child.
The next day, Igor and Valya flew to Leningrad. Mother came to accompany them to the airfield and, saying goodbye, whispered to Valya:
– Pray to the Lord, child, at least occasionally. Write to me... And if everyone turns away from you, come home. Remember that the Lord loves you and is waiting for your return.
Valya just looked at her with grateful eyes and kissed her deeply.
A month later, Anastasia Petrovna received a letter from her daughter. Valya wrote that they were given a good apartment, she got a job and she and her husband live well. But she didn’t say a word about the fact that Igor forbade her to attend church and told her to get all this “nonsense” out of her head.
Anastasia Petrovna continued to pray daily for her daughter and never, even at night, locked front door, believing that Valya will return home...
One morning Valya was rushing to work. While crossing the street, she tripped and fell on the tracks in front of an approaching tram. The driver did not have time to brake, and her legs were cut off almost to the knees... Only on the third day did Valya regain consciousness. The first thing she felt was severe pain. Opening her eyes, she saw the hospital walls and did not immediately understand what was wrong with her. And when I realized, I lost consciousness again. After that, for two days she either forgot herself or came to her senses again.
When consciousness returned to her, she prayed loudly and said that the Lord was punishing her for backsliding and disobedience to Him. She repented and prayed to the Lord for forgiveness: “Be merciful, God, to me, a sinner. You judge everyone fairly according to their deeds. I repent of my actions. My Lord, forgive me and accept me again as one of Your children. Let me know the depth of Your love, send me the peace that I had before.”
Her health was restored slowly, because she had lost a lot of blood. But she grew spiritually every day. She prayed out loud, not ashamed of other sick people and medical personnel, and not only did no one condemn her for this, but during her prayers all conversations stopped and everyone reverently listened to these outpourings of the soul of the apostate who had returned to God.
Valya spent more than four months in the hospital. During this time, her husband never visited her. When the danger to her life had passed, he sent a note through the doctor, which contained only a few words: “Forgive me, Valya, but, due to the current circumstances, we must part. Don't write to me and don't try to find me. It's better for both of us. Goodbye. Igor.”
After reading the letter, Valya did not cry, her face did not even change. She carefully folded the note and said quietly:
- This was to be expected...
And at home, in hometown, where Valya was born and raised, the whole church prayed for her, especially her mother and friend Nadya, with whom Valya was very close.
Her mother wrote several letters to Valya, assuring her of her love, conveying greetings from her friends and saying that everyone was praying for her.
But there was no answer. Finally, after almost five months, a letter arrived. With trembling fingers, Anastasia Petrovna opened the envelope and, unfolding the letter, began to read:
“Dear mom! Forgive me for being silent for so long. I had an accident. Four months ago, while crossing the road, I tripped over the rails and fell just in front of the tram. Then I don’t remember how it happened, but the tram couldn’t stop quickly... In a word, I was left lying on one side of the rails, and my legs on the other...”
Having read this far, the mother gasped and clutched her chest. Then she sank onto a chair and, covering her face with her hands, sobbed loudly, saying in between sobs:
- Oh, my poor child!.. Did she understand?.. Did she repent?..
Having finished reading the letter, Anastasia Petrovna fell to her knees and with tears of joy thanked the Lord for the salvation and return of her daughter. On the same day she wrote a response...
Anastasia Petrovna came to the airfield to meet Valya. It was a touching meeting. Embracing, they sobbed, not paying attention to anyone. Many, seeing the girl on wooden legs, crying in her mother’s arms, also could not hold back their tears.
Arriving home, mother and daughter first of all prayed together. It was a prayer of gratitude for Vali's spiritual healing.
Now peace and love reigned again in the small house of the Derevyankins. Every morning, as in previous years, Valya opens the windows wide, deeply inhales the freshness of the blooming gardens, rejoicing in each new day. She works in an office as an accountant. On Sundays and in the evenings he works with young people, talks about his life and warns others about the dangers of disobedience to God. “For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap” (Gal. 6:7). Every sin and deviation from the will of God inevitably entails punishment: for some - in this life, for others - in eternity.
Valya betrayed Christ, exchanged God's love for human love, and for the betrayal she herself reaped the betrayal of her husband. And only through the persistent prayer of her mother did the Lord return her to His bosom. And how many people have become victims of Satan, having forgotten their promise to “serve God in a good conscience”!.. But after, in eternity, they will reap the fruits of their disobedience. “It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God!.. For our God is a consuming fire” (Heb. 10:31; 12:29).
WHO HOPES IN CHRIST...
Elizaveta Petushkova
It was in Riga. The youth in our church were friendly. We worked joyfully for the Lord and for our neighbors. “Together we believed, together we loved and sang, together we measured the roads, often amid the howl of a blizzard. It was not a lot of work, but they did it,” and most importantly, they all grew together in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We remember the unforgettable green domes of churches, white nights, “the narrow streets of Riga with the tread of echoing centuries” and Sunday summer evenings on the seaside, where we admired the sunset. Our hearts were filled with praise to the great God and Creator of the Universe:
Blue sky, seagulls over the seaside,
Slender pine trees on the shore...
Everywhere I see the hand of God
And the beauty of His creation.
The waves gently caressed our feet as we, holding hands, rushed into the oncoming wave, towards the setting sun. The harmony of singing voices and the splashing of waves merged into one song of praise.
Voices were heard on the shore: “Who is this? Students? - "Not really! These are Baptists! Yes, it was us, the children of God, loving the Lord, desiring to live godly and overflowing with the desire to bring His light burning within us to many who are seeking the truth.
They came up to us, introduced themselves, asked questions, and we told them about the love of God, sang hymns and invited them to a meeting.
One day a pleasant young man came to our meeting. He listened carefully to the sermons. It was clear from his face that the Word of God touched his heart. After the meeting, he was invited to stay with the youth to get to know each other better. It turned out that he had recently arrived in Riga, his name was Marat and that he was from a Muslim family.
He asked many questions and wanted to know more about the Lord; said that he liked our Christian youth and meeting. Marat began to attend services and could often be seen with young people. It was a joy to watch him grow spiritually.
The youth fell in love with Marat, prayed for him, believed and waited for that joyful day when he would give his heart to the Lord.
Marat took a liking to one of our sisters, Tanechka. He began to look after her, give her flowers, and see her off. Love gently knocked on their hearts. Yes, they fell in love with each other, but it scared Tanechka. It was clear that Marat thought more about her than about his repentance.
One evening, Marat started talking about his feelings and proposed to Tanya. Tanya asked for time to answer, and the next day she shared with her friend:
“I’m afraid that my refusal will push him away from the Lord, but I can’t marry him: he’s not a member of the Church.”
Fasting and prayer were ordered. And, as always, the whole burden falls on the shoulders of our mothers. So Tanya’s mother constantly prayed for them. The friend also admonished Tanya:
- Tanya, somehow explain to him more gently that you cannot marry him, because the Word of God warns us against such marriages. May the Lord give you wisdom to say so, so as not to offend. He has been among us for so long, he must understand!
They prayed fervently and entrusted this matter to the Lord.
At the next meeting, Tanya told Marat that she loved him, but could not marry him, because it contradicted the Word of God. Marat felt rejected and defeated:
- How is this possible? We love each other!
Tanya, despite the internal pain, said:
– Our marriage will not bring us happiness if we go against the word of God. I'm sorry.
Then Marat angrily said:
“I won’t set foot in the meeting again,” and he left.
Tanya felt guilty for the pain she caused him. On the way back, she stopped by a friend's house to tell her what had happened. Both were silent for a long time, each thinking about their own things. The friend was saddened by this outcome of the case.
Then they prayed together, betraying Marat into the hands of the Lord. After fervent prayer, peace came.
“Tanya,” said the friend, “don’t worry.” Those who trust in the Lord will not be left in shame. Let us trust in the Lord. Everything is done in accordance with the Word of God, and you know that God has prepared abundant blessings for His faithful in all areas of spiritual and physical life. You just need to be faithful to the Lord to receive them. You know that there is a fallen angel, Satan, who “walks like a roaring lion,” doing his best to kill and destroy. If he fails to do this, then he wants to deprive us, if not all, then at least partially, of the blessings that the Lord has prepared for those who love Him.
Some time passed. Friends continued to pray for Marat. One day a friend asked Tanya: “Have you heard anything about Marat?”
Tanya said that he got married; They live very well with their wife, and soon they will have a child. Girlfriend says:
– You see how it turned out, but don’t be sad, Tanya. You don’t yet know what treasure the Lord has prepared for you. Trust in God, just be faithful, and “hope in Christ, do you hear, never disappoints!”
Time flew by quickly. Tanya served in the choir, and in free time sewed From under her skillful hands more than one dress came out that brought joy to girls on their wedding day.
One day Tanya came running to her friend very excited:
– Pray... we must pray... for Marat.
- What’s wrong with him? – asked a friend.
“He is in grief: the child died during childbirth,” Tanya said, catching her breath.
- And your wife? How does she feel?
– She too... died.
A shiver ran through my body. How shots sounded in the mind of a passage from the Bible: “It is terrible to fall into the hands of the living God... It is difficult for you to go against the pricks...”.
The girlfriends bowed their knees: “God, have mercy on him! Forgive him and have mercy! Help him! Bring him to Your holy feet!” - the prayer rushed to the throne of almighty God.
Soon Marat began attending meetings again. Finally, the hour for which Marat’s friends had been waiting for so long had arrived.
Heaven rejoiced over yet another repentant sinner, and friends cried with joy: “It’s worth praying, it’s worth working, it’s worth giving your whole life for this!”
And what a blessed day it was when Tanechka and Marat were united! They shone like stars in the firmament of heaven, like gold refined in a smelter’s furnace!
My dears! Honor the Lord, “strive for the faith which was once delivered to the saints... and building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, awaiting mercy from our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal LIFE” (Jude 1).
…Let the fountain flow
A life pure and holy
And in others it will clog with a stream
From communicating with you...
The Lord's hand is not shortened to save and bless. He called on Marat and Tanya to work in His field among Muslims, abundantly blessing their work: people reached out to God, new churches began to open.
Our guest was the First Deputy Chairman of the Educational Committee of the Moscow Patriarchate, rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya Embankment, Archpriest Maxim Kozlov.
In today's program we discussed words from the book of Proverbs of Solomon that the Lord punishes whomever he loves. Why does God’s love manifest itself in this particular way, how to accept punishments from the Lord, and what is the meaning of these punishments?
______________________________________
A. Pichugin
Friends, this is “Bright Evening” on Radio Vera. Hello, in this studio Alla Mitrofanova -
A. Mitrofanova
Alexey Pichugin.
A. Pichugin
And we welcome our guest: this part of the “Bright Evening” will be held with us by Archpriest Maxim Kozlov, first deputy chairman of the Educational Committee of the Moscow Patriarchate, rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment. Hello!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Good evening!
A. Mitrofanova
We have an interesting reason to talk today. Tomorrow in churches the following reading from the book of Proverbs of Solomon will be heard: “for whom the Lord loves, he punishes and favors, as a father does to his son.” I immediately remember this paraphrase: if he hits, it means he loves. “Whomever the Lord loves, he punishes” - why does he necessarily “punish”? Why such harsh measures? How does fatherly love manifest itself here?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Firstly, it seems to me that the literal meaning is direct, correct, understandable, and there is no need to escape it either. In normal human relationships, the one who is truly loved is punished. A person to whom you are indifferent - whom you perceive as a stranger to yourself, about whom you do not care. Will you be involved in his upbringing, including the punishments that are inseparable from upbringing? Not really. Parents punish their own children, whom they love, and the lives of their fellow students kindergarten, school, university, as a rule, do not interfere if they are adequate parents. Accordingly, if we remember that we are talking about our Heavenly Father and know that He loves everyone to the extent that love cannot be higher, then He shows this care, this perfect love that surpasses any human understanding in that including in the form of punishment, which, of course, is teaching. That is, the purpose of which, of course, is pedagogical, namely: to try to educate a person’s soul in such a way, a person so that he does not lose the main thing - the Kingdom of Heaven. But for this education, the purpose of which is repeatedly indicated in the Holy Scriptures, which is that evangelical margarita pearl, for the sake of which everything else can be sold, one can lose everything, just not to lose it. As in other places in the Gospel it is clearly said “hands, legs, eyes” - it is better to remain without them and without them to enter the Kingdom of Heaven - poor, crippled, with cancer, but into the Kingdom of Heaven.
A. Mitrofanova
Father Maxim, we can reason this way if we a priori proceed from the fact that for us the Kingdom of Heaven is the most necessary thing. Then you can lose one of your limbs or be left without an eye, or without something else, just so as not to be left without the Kingdom of Heaven. But, you know, it seems to me that this priority is not always obvious to us in our lives. And it seems: how can this be, why? What is this for, what are all these punishments for? And is the final goal worth suffering so much?
A. Pichugin
Well, in general, many even believers will argue in the sense that the Kingdom of Heaven is somewhere far away, but my hand is always with me, I will need it.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Actually, these words are spoken in the Holy Scriptures for those for whom the Kingdom of Heaven is a priority eternal life are absolute. Well, yes, unfortunately, a sad statement in relation to the current state of the world is not only the presence among the world's population of a quarter or about a fifth of people who are agnostics and atheists; but also that among those, approximately more than a third of the inhabitants of the Earth who are Christians or call themselves Christians, for many eternal life is some kind of not just an abstraction, although often an abstraction too, but something that , well, it’s good if it applies to my completely prosperous existence here. And that’s not what Holy Scripture is all about. And the above quote is not about that, and the Book of Job is not about that, and the Gospel is not about that. Nowhere in the New Testament is there any idea that if you believe in God and follow the commandments, you will be prosperous here on earth, have many children, be professionally successful, be happy in your personal life, travel abroad, and have an account opened. in the bank all the time, there will be no financial crises in your time, wars and revolutions will pass you by, and so on, and so on, and so on. It's not there anywhere!
A. Mitrofanova
Rather, it’s the other way around: that “they will persecute you, they will revile you, they will slander you unjustly for My sake, but you rejoice and be glad.” Then the question arises: do I need all this?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
This is a question that everyone really needs to answer. It’s very good that we finally formulated it this way. In fact, that's exactly how it stands. For me, the most important thing, including extreme life crashes and failures, is the Kingdom of Heaven, God and His truth, and the desire to be with Him in eternity and with those whom He chooses to be with Him in eternity, who turn out to be not that worthy, and who will be taken into this good existence there? Or not - it’s not that I refuse this - these are some kind of God-fighters who refuse - but rather, I consider this a bonus that will be added to the main thing, that is, to the existence in this world that I consider prosperous and normal.
A. Pichugin
You know, but this analogy comes to my mind, I can’t say how appropriate it is in this case: the repressions of the 30s, which affected a huge number, almost the entire clergy. These are the new martyrs whom the Church glorified, these are those people about whom we know that they really did not refuse, did not betray anyone, we can ascertain their holy life, or at least their holy death. And a huge number of her clergy, about whom we do not know or do not know so well, they trembled, they could not stand it, although they also knew all this and also preached to their parishioners for many years that same Kingdom of Heaven, read those words that we quoted at the beginning of our program. But despite all this, when the time came to respond somehow, they chose something slightly different.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
I think this just illustrates what we said. Actually, both the events of the twentieth century and the tragedy of the seventeenth year - two coups and the subsequent Civil War, and the tragedy that happened to our people during decades of repression, and the tragedy of the Great Patriotic War were the most difficult, humanly hardly possible, teachings of God in relation to this huge community of people - Russia and the Russian Church. This means that there was no other way, on the paths of God’s Providence, to check what is behind the words, to ensure that this correspondence arises between the conviction, realized including in heroic circumstances, like the new martyrs, and the lofty word of the Gospel. Actually, you and I here right now are also busy beating the air, but none of us knows if just now they suddenly walked through that door in the studio and said: “Come on, citizens, put your hands behind your back, you are under arrest!”
A. Pichugin
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Which of us can now say for ourselves with a guarantee how we will behave?
A. Pichugin
Nobody can!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
We can only hope and ask God that at that moment we have the strength to behave as a Christian should. Shall we say that this kind of revelation, punishing, teaching, although not as terrible and not as global as what happened in the twentieth century, but private and in the life of each of us, this crisis, this judgment is still here on earth , is not useful for us? When I find out what I really am. Indeed, in punishment, most often a person learns some additional truth about himself - who he really is.
A. Mitrofanova
This is if he looks deeply into himself. And if not...
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
If you're ready to bear it. No, right now we are not talking at all about the worldview of non-believers. Because for them this is basically an unacceptable thing. For a non-believer, the idea that one must endure for the sake of... well, no, some endured for the sake of communism, for the sake of ideology...
A. Pichugin
But some for the sake of their neighbors.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
But this, in fact, is not the case pure form non-believers are people of transferred religiosity - parareligiousness - and who have some other idea of the Kingdom of Heaven or goal setting. But such a consistent unbeliever, according to Dostoevsky, or practically an unbeliever, of which there are a huge number now, including among our compatriots - then, of course, there is no point in enduring. Then, in any case, you need to rebel, seek rights, demand compliance, scold the housing office, the boss, the president for the fact that I have not received something in this life and some restrictions have arisen in it. But something like this about us... a believer, it seems, shouldn’t say something like that? In theory, it seems to me. Shouldn't. Because, look: there is some kind of collision happening. What is a private court that happens behind a person’s grave? Let us assume a private trial given to us in the form of ordeals. The Vision of Blessed Theodora is the most striking text now, very famous and also depicted iconographically, what is it? A person's soul is separated from his body after death. And this soul goes through the so-called tollhouses, that is, customs posts, where it is checked that this person and this or that passion: that I and my pride, that I and vanity, that I and fornication, that I and the love of money, that I and love of pleasure, and so on and so forth. And it is determined what outweighs in the end - the person who remains in the image and likeness of God remains, or the passion that has devoured the person remains. And in our earthly life, when we encounter this kind of cutting off from us, perhaps not because we ourselves want it, but the Lord, punishing and teaching us, allows us certain circumstances that are not useful for us. So it becomes clear: can we, do we agree to live without this. John Chrysostom has such a simple formula on how to be saved. He says: “There are three ways to be saved: those who are able do not sin. Second: sin and truly repent. That is, treat your sin in such a way as to hate it and push away from it. But if you fail in either the first or the second, then there is a third opportunity to be saved: patiently, without complaining, endure what God allows for the sake of your punishment and teaching as a result of your sins.” The Lord allows it. In other cases this is understandable. I don’t know, the man there was eager to steal, and he was sent to prison for a lesser crime, but as a result he did not allow anything more passionate. A man was eager to cheat on his husband or wife, but he was overcome by some kind of grief due to his work, that he, in general, had no interest in all these romantic and carnal desires. Well, what is this? Yes, you could say punishment. Illnesses often keep people from certain sins.
A. Mitrofanova
Archpriest Maxim Kozlov is the rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment today in the “Bright Evening” program on radio “Vera”. Father Maxim, if, for example, a child is sick. It often happens today, unfortunately, that children are born with disabilities. This is a baby, he is unlikely to be to blame for anything, he has not yet had time. It is clear that we are all born with original sin, and so on. But nevertheless, he himself has not yet had time. His parents can be exceptionally wonderful people in every sense. And then the question arises: why? Or: for what? These people, who are already very good and wonderful in themselves, what are they to blame for? Or, for example, if a child dies, it is generally impossible to bear.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
You can also remember Ivan Karamazov about a baby’s tear.
A. Mitrofanova
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
A. Mitrofanova
All the same questions. They still remain today.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
The questions are the same. And what's new under the sun? As if we don't know that this fundamental inequality permeates the current state of the world. One child is born to a kind, pious, healthy mother, feeds on the milk of her breast from his youth, enjoys the Mediterranean sea air and is brought up next to a Greek monastery. And the other is born to a prostitute who forgets about him, who gave him hereditary diseases and... an innocent child. One person is born in the pious Kostroma outback, cultivates cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, spends his whole life in the village, sees no temptations, reaches a venerable old age, surrounded by grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Another unfortunate person is born in some terrible...
A. Pichugin
In the Syrian province.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Well, why in Syrian? It's nothing. In some very scary place near New York, in some family of transsexual parents raised by the LGBT community. Right away he doesn’t even have cockroaches in his head, but in general some kind of magical tattoos are applied to him by these parents from the very beginning. It's not his fault either. Therefore, there is nothing in this that we do not know about the world. This inequality permeates the world in everything, except for one thing - one key circumstance: God gives everyone the opportunity to be saved. Here is another inequality that is not abolished. We are equal in one respect - no one is deprived of the possibility of salvation. And how and why people are led to salvation - some after 99 years, and others after a week of life; Why one is Seneca, Einstein or Saint Ignatius Brianchaninov in intelligence, and the other is a feeble-minded idiot and cannot connect a few words throughout his entire life - we do not know. But only a Christian accepts by faith that behind this there still stands that love of God, which is not always clear to us here on earth - this is what they say about “the mysterious ways of the Lord” - which leads this person to salvation. Bunin has a story, written in exile, let me remind you, about the relativity of human ideas about punishment, happiness and learning. The story is about how a brilliant graduate of one of the military schools in St. Petersburg meets a beautiful girl at a ball, how they find their way to each other, how they approach marriage in purity, without violating the truth of God - this is their wedding described. And so they must leave for honeymoon from the station in St. Petersburg. They approach the platform - “Champagne”, their friends see them off. And an unexpected adventure: a porter traveling with a cart accidentally pushes both the bride and groom under the wheels of an approaching locomotive. They are dying. A scream, bewilderment, a cry of “why?”, which almost ends the story, but almost. Because then Bunin, who usually never stages, adds that this all happened on August 1, 1914 - before the start of the First World War. And now the question arises: who was happier, who was more beloved by God and deserved to die on August 1, 1914 on his wedding day, without spoiling anything in his life? Who is happier: them or those who later survived the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th? And who also got the 18th, 20th and 30th years? It is not always clear from here, from the earth, what God’s punishment consists of, that path of His love that leads a person to salvation, desiring that good. Sometimes a person dies young beyond our logic. But we don’t know what could have happened to him, what he himself could have done, how he himself could have distorted his life, or what adventures, trials, temptations, dirty tricks from the outside could have come his way. life path. What makes a Christian different is that even when it is logically incomprehensible, he agrees: “Lord, I can’t understand. My heart trembles at the death of that child. Or why these good people have such a test - a crazy baby or a seriously ill child. But I believe that the One who sent His Son for us to die on the cross allows these people only for one purpose - so that they either be saved, or, like Job, grow to the extent of such a giant, in which no matter what prosperity a person can be formed I couldn't."
A. Mitrofanova
That's why they say that believers are happy people. You can take and explain to yourself the most key paradoxes of our life. What if this is not the case? If there is no such trust in God? Such that you understand: he really is talking to you now loving Father. If there is no idea of God as Father? And then it is not clear why, for example, a person who stole lives a wonderful life, his children study in elite British schools, and so on, and a person who has worked honestly all his life cannot even save up for some trip, well, somewhere to the Krasnodar region?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Well, what's new here?
A. Pichugin
There is absolutely nothing new, but the question remains!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Nothing new! No, the question remains this way... Then it is understood that the world should be turned into some kind of testing ground, where, I don’t know... as executors of the Will of God, angels were sent from right to left in order to give one a cumpol, and give another a bonus for piety in during the last week. And everything that we are talking about as a meeting of Divine Providence and human freedom would turn into some kind of computer game within the universe - “become good” is called.
A. Pichugin
But there is one “but” in Alla’s question: how to explain this to a person for whom all religious ideas have no value and do not play any role?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
I completely agree with you that... Maybe I won’t agree, but I’ll say about myself that it’s impossible to explain. This is the difference between a religious and a non-religious worldview... for ourselves, of course, let’s say: between Christian and non-Christian, non-religious worldviews, that faith in God, and such a God who sent His Son for our salvation, it provides an answer to Ivan Karamazov’s question. After all, the answer is that there is no suffering in which Christ would not be next to you. There is nothing that you experience that he has not experienced to an immeasurably greater extent, in no way deserving anything of what we experience and we deserve. An atheist cannot answer this. The atheist answers by saying that everyone... like Stendhal: “Everyone is for himself in this desert of life called egoism.” Well, look at the heroes of classical French literature, such as Stendhal, Balzac, Flaubert, and so on. Or he organizes a revolution, because then “we are ours, we will build a new world” and we ourselves are the forges of our own happiness. Well, or finally achieves either success or a comfortable existence as much as is in his power. And if it doesn’t work out, then yes, life turned out badly. But only then it still doesn’t work out - then the wife still becomes old, she needs to be replaced with a young one. Then, anyway, someone has a better car. Then it’s all the same... at 60-70 years old you can, of course, have plastic surgery, but you’ll still start to creak, you won’t reach 150, it’ll end anyway. Yes, in the end, this is why we are Christians, also because we do not agree to accept such a worldview, because it does not provide answers. I am convinced that the atheistic worldview does not provide answers.
A. Mitrofanova
Father Maxim, do all Christians trust God like their Father?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
It is possible to arrange a test among us: whether each of us sitting here trusts this. I would say this, you know: to say that everyone, including... let’s not talk about others - about ourselves, that would be very arrogant. But at least I understand that trusting Him this way is right. None of us have found ourselves in a test where we need to trust in prison, in a camp, under bombs, like 2-3 generations ago. Then the value of our words will be tested, because it is easy to say when this has not happened in our lives. You know, Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh said: “I am very bad person. But what I say about God is true.” Here, perhaps, it can be said that none of us will say that we are so good as to say about ourselves or about those around us that we trust God so much. But it’s true that you need to trust so much.
A. Mitrofanova
Forgive me then for another “damned” question: why do you think this is true?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Because... everything that I know about our faith, through faith in Christ the Savior, God, once glorified in the Trinity, which gives meaning to existence, convinces me of this. Once upon a time, a very long time ago, I came... It sounds a little Baptist: “when I believed in God,” well, since the question is posed that way.
A. Mitrofanova
I'm sorry!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Yes. ...from the situation in life something like this: I grew up in a very good in terms of human relations, but quite secular, atheistic Soviet family. My childhood was in the 60-70s of the last century. And at the age of about 14 years, two more children were born in my parents’ family, which was not typical and unusual for that time. They thought of one, but it turned out to be two at once - twin brothers, who are still living happily to this day. And so I remember that when I was waiting for them to appear, it was an extremely difficult wait. Because it was such that I lived, like everyone else in Moscow, in a relatively prosperous life status, as it seemed then - soon the end of school, soon entering the university, preparing for something. And now it begins: diapers, a child’s cry - well, what is the idea of a fourteen-year-old teenager about the appearance of a baby in the family. For our younger listeners, let me remind you that this is that catastrophic era when there were no automatic washing machines, not even paper diapers, that is, this was a completely different qualitative state of life. And so they were born - not one, but two. And it all started: diapers, screaming, washing, walking with a stroller. It is clear that all family members were involved, and I was also quite involved. And then it suddenly turned out, contrary to my preset and desire, that I love these two screaming, pissing little people who apparently bring little joy. But I don’t know why, but I love it. And this was in no way derived from the atheistic worldview. I couldn’t explain this to myself without God, this is where the coming began... I realized that there is a law of love that conquers everything. And then, when the Gospel fell into my hands, it became clear that here He is, the One who speaks about this love. If we believe the Gospel... it is a matter of faith. No scientists... all these disputes about the historicity of Christ are meaningless, because a hundred times you can prove the historicity of Christ and not believe in Him as the Son of God, Who brought you not just moral teaching, but salvation. Now, if you believe that the Gospel is true, then everything else comes with it.
A. Pichugin
We will continue this conversation in just a minute. Let us remind you that in the Vera radio studio today with us is Archpriest Maxim Kozlov, first deputy chairman of the Educational Committee of the Moscow Patriarchate, rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment. Alla Mitrofanova, I am Alexey Pichugin. In just a minute we are here again.
A. Mitrofanova
Once again, good “Bright Evening”, dear listeners. Alexey Pichugin, I am Alla Mitrofanova. And we spend this evening with Archpriest Maxim Kozlov, first deputy chairman of the Educational Committee of the Moscow Patriarchate and rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment.
A. Pichugin
We are talking about coming to faith, and in this regard it is very interesting to me: I have a scientific worldview sufficient quantity familiar with this very scientific worldview. Moreover, what’s interesting is that among them there are very religious people, and even in our studio there were scientists with the absolute worldview of a person who, by any indication, should not have come to the Church, but nevertheless he comes to the Church. But there is a huge mass of people who not only did not come to the Church, but I don’t even see any prerequisites for this to happen. These people are mainly representatives of various natural science communities of people who study anthropology in higher education, for example, the study of human development. And I can’t imagine what could happen, I understand that for everyone coming to Church is an absolutely private example, that everyone has their own push, everyone has their own meeting with God. But it doesn't happen. And I, ever since I communicate with these people, have been wondering what could affect their lives, in which science has described everything from start to finish - from the theory of the origin of species to some of the latest modern research, which for them is yet another times they only confirm the complete absence of any possibility of the existence of a Higher Mind.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
It seems to me that we are now talking about a rather personal and, perhaps, statistically or sociologically not necessarily definitively reliable experience, because my, say, experience speaks rather of something else. What we have now, the larger the city, the higher the educational qualifications of its residents, the more fully functioning higher education institutions there are. educational institutions, the more intense the church life in it and the greater the percentage of people included in it, including youth and higher education who participate in church life. In my opinion, now there is a greater problem with conveying the message gospel story about the gospel gospel to people with less than average education. That is, those who formally, perhaps, have some certificates about education, but these certificates are about that degraded and, in fact, almost devalued university education, which is given, let’s say so as not to offend anyone, by a significant part of modern Russian universities Or who once received it only in order to be socialized in some way, by virtue of receiving this diploma. Why? Because a person who is accustomed to scientific thinking - no matter in the humanities, mathematics, science and science - he still has certain skills, if, of course, he sets himself the goal of working in this regard, getting to the primary sources, to the fundamentals. We can hope that this person will read the Gospel, which, by the way, unfortunately, does not always happen. Maybe even in comparison with the teachings of some other religions - for God's sake. I always say: yes please. You choose - open New Testament, put the Koran next to it, it will be very good, you will immediately feel the difference, if you want, put the Vedanta, some others holy books, whichever ones you want, and compare. Compare and listen to what your heart will respond to, what your soul will respond to. Then these people have the opportunity - I repeat: having developed the skill of some kind of consistent, rational thinking, which in itself is not bad - to think out their worldview. Because the idea, at a minimum, about the absence of a Higher Mind in the Universe, it certainly does not follow from any natural science, physical or other laws. This is the axiomatic idea of accepting or not accepting it. In any case, this is an axiom, from which, yes, then certain theorems follow, through syllogisms. And it is necessary to complete the construction - what theorems follow from the acceptance of the a priori position about the presence of the Spiritual principle in the existence of the world and the absence of this pre-world-existent Spiritual principle of the pre-visible world. Therefore, it seems to me, we just need to help people of this kind, of this type of consciousness, of this mindset, not to dwell on some external clues of supposedly existing contradictions: the Holy Scripture speaks of six days of creation, but we know about millions of years of development solar system, Earth, universe...
A. Pichugin
Even Christianity does not deny this, in general.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Doesn't deny it. But this does not contradict anything fundamentally. This is an inferential and indirect question of how the world picture that is drawn in the first chapters of the Book of Genesis correlates with versions, hypotheses and partly objective knowledge about the prehistory of the world, which is in physics and others natural sciences. But all this, again, does not lead to the end, to what we call the ideological foundations of science. I also know many physicists, especially mathematicians, by the way. They are somehow more inclined to get to the beginning. Physicists sometimes go into a certain social area in particular. Biologists, in particular, sometimes leave: life is so short, and the worm is so long - I have no time to do anything else. And people who study abstract disciplines, it seems to me, turn to faith more often. In any case, it seems to me that his professional knowledge and developed thinking skills should be recommended to be applied to that area before formulating his own worldview - not at the level of reflexes and cliches of consciousness, but a holistic picture from a to z - and pronouncing it. It seems to me that formulating and speaking can help lead many to faith.
A. Mitrofanova
It seems to me that here motivation may be another question, to which, as far as I know, science does not have a particularly clear answer. This is not even a question about the meaning of life, it is a question about the meaning of death. It’s impossible to explain to yourself: how is it possible that everything will continue, but I won’t be there? There is no reason why this is so. And it seems to me that through this question many people begin to dig a little deeper.
A. Pichugin
And you look at it from the point of view of a believer, and a huge number of people look at it like this: well, yes, it will end, I won’t exist; I lived this life according to some not religious, but social commandments; I probably lived it with dignity, but yes, that’s all, and I won’t be there anymore.
A. Mitrofanova
Is a person not afraid of death?
A. Pichugin
Don't know. He’s probably afraid, but it’s in human nature to be afraid of death. But further he believes that his life will continue in his children.
A. Mitrofanova
Well, God willing, okay. Everyone really chooses for themselves here.
A. Pichugin
Well, it seems so to me, forgive me for giving my opinion on this matter.
A. Mitrofanova
I would now like to return to the main topic of our conversation, to this biblical formulation: “Whom the Lord loves, He punishes and favors, as a father does to his son.” Father Maxim, you said that there are several ways, according to John Chrysostom, to be saved. And one of them is to endure the trials and tribulations that befall us in our lives, which, accordingly, are sent to us by the Lord. Because, most likely, everything that happens in our lives comes from Him. Is it possible to somehow avoid these sorrows? Is it possible to prevent these tests from starting? What needs to be done for this? What should you listen to? There, in my opinion, in the Book of Job there are these words that the Lord speaks once, and if a person does not hear, he speaks to a person a second time. How can we discern when He speaks to us?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
The Apostle Paul says that it is great happiness to be pious and content. That is, it is great happiness to fulfill the Law of God in your life, the Commandments of God, the Truth of God and to be content. That is, accept those life circumstances, that path, that totality of external existence that God sends to you. Don't rebel against it, don't look for another life with other people in another time in another country, and so on. This is the internal acceptance of God’s plan for you. Relatively speaking, if we correctly use the money sent to us, then even if we are rich, we can be saved. If we are able, as a person in office or in command, to perceive this as obedience to God and responsibility for the work that I do, and not become despots in relation to those who are subordinate to us, then God can leave you in charge for your own good and for the good of those people over whom you are placed, and so on and so forth. That is, if, with life’s well-being, our priorities do not shift towards only earthly existence, then you may not be deprived of this. Maybe this is what we can say here: after all, human relationships, including love, they can be distorted by the fact that everything that holds them together, including in this love, relates only to earthly existence - and the she-wolf loves her wolf cubs, she is ready to kill because of this, those who start them. And the apostle says that the pagans also love those who love them. In this sense, valuable in human relationships, from the point of view of eternity, is only that which can be continued in this eternity: love for each other, associated with self-restraint for the sake of another person, with pushing oneself aside for his good; with the fact that I am, as it were, ready to love not only the one who admires me or supports me, but also the one who reproaches me and who annoys me, and the one from whom I receive sorrows. And if this present grows in human relationships, then God can bless you with longevity, family happiness, and grandchildren and great-grandchildren whom you will see. If you remember that this is very good and very important, but not the main thing, but the main thing is why we live here on earth - in order to achieve blissful eternity.
A. Mitrofanova
Archpriest Maxim Kozlov is the rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment today in the “Bright Evening” program on radio “Vera”. Father Maxim, I still want to return to this phrase once again: “whom the Lord loves, he punishes.” How accurate is the word “punish”? What if there are other meanings? I remember looking at materials on this topic and noticed that in English it's about discipline. This is a slightly different shade. For some reason, in Russian there is such a very harsh translation - “punishment”.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
The fact is that the Slavicizing Synodal translation, and the person of the nineteenth century quite clearly understood that the word “punishment” and the word “teaching” are synonymous. And they taught, punishing...
A. Pichugin
Well, the mandate comes from the word “mandate”!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Yes, and they punished, teaching.
A. Mitrofanova
This is if you look at Sologub - how everyone was flogged there - or read his notes. Then, indeed, they taught and punished, it was one whole. But now this is no longer the case. These words are divided in our minds: punishment and teaching.
A. Pichugin
Yes, this, in general, breaks the entire understanding of the relationship between God and man. If in the understanding of a person of the nineteenth century, punishment and teaching are something akin to, as Alla gave the example of Sologub - they taught by punishing. But this is not the model of the relationship between God and man that we, as Christians, are talking about.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Why not that one? We Christians certainly do not say that the relationship between God and man is what is now portrayed in some schools of modern pedagogy. That is, when he grows up on his own, as he wants, and our job is to give candy on time. No, of course, not candy, but organic food. And then simply not interfere with how the child develops on its own. While Christian anthropology proceeds from the idea, from the understanding that human nature is fallen. And what if a child is not raised, including punishment, then in the vast majority of cases he will grow up to be such a wild child that it will not seem to him that the crown needs to be shaped.
A. Pichugin
Will it turn out that a person’s psyche will simply be broken? That he will walk the streets and be afraid of everything: “but I won’t go here, because God will definitely punish me if I go here. Although there may not be anything bad there. “And I won’t go here either, but here...” A person ends up withdrawing into himself, he thinks all the time that he is the worst of all, as in that famous song.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
If there is no love, then, of course, yes. And if there is love, then it will be, as St. Augustine said back in the fifth century: love God and do whatever you want. Because if you love someone for real, then you do this, at least try very hard, so as not to annoy in any way and not to cause any sorrow, resentment, pain to the heart of the one you love. This is the same thing, only we will transfer it to an immeasurably greater extent to our Heavenly Father. Actually, what should a Christian do? Try to live out of love for the Heavenly Father, so that what I do does not cause him sorrow for me.
A. Mitrofanova
You are now talking about punishments, about how to raise children, and I remember how I was raised and am trying to understand whether I was punished or not. I don't remember at all. I don’t remember a single case of any such strict measures being applied to me. They talked to me, they could console me, they could shame me in some way, they could somehow simply bring me to a different level of understanding the problem. But I don’t remember any obvious punishments at all. Maybe I would have turned out to be something much more intelligent if these punishments had been applied to me, but you know, I am very grateful to my parents for the fact that they somehow treated me very humanely and with understanding and subtly. me. This only makes me feel grateful to them.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Well, I don't know. I was punished, and I also think it was right. I tore the page with the two out of the diary. And I completely agree - it was necessary to punish. Of course, it was also necessary to explain, but why explain to a dunce in the fifth or sixth grade who does this. We need to explain it to him properly, so to speak, so that he doesn’t tear out more than this page. Maybe, starting from a certain age, girls need to have conversations first of all. And even the absence of these conversations already hurts the girl’s heart so much that she will strive to live in such a way as not to lose this. And for a dunce of ten or twelve years old, conversations will not always help. Or there, from friends, a child, out of stupidity, out of stupidity, took or stole something from a neighbor. Of course, you also need to speak with words, but he already knew that there was no need to take and steal someone else’s thing. But if this happens, it is not enough to limit yourself to just words, you need... I will not consciously voice any options for action, but actions must take place. This action is the concept of punishment - something can be deprived, some bonuses or priorities that also existed in the child’s life, this is also punishment. I think any of us, parents, are in this system. We, of course, do not punish our children - a normal parent - simply because we are annoyed or angry with them. But if I love my child and see a crookedness that arises, perhaps not in a one-time action, but in a chain of actions that leads him in the wrong direction, but I will have to do it first gently, and then, perhaps, more firmly, and at some point, maybe put up a fence so that it doesn’t bend too much.
A. Mitrofanova
Do I understand correctly that this is the parental formula: if you are going to punish, then punish not out of anger, but out of love - it is precisely in this analogy that God’s love should probably be understood?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Of course, in relation to God. Because we definitely assume that all words Holy Scripture, so-called anthropomorphisms Old Testament that “God is angry” or some other human ascribed feelings towards God, these are precisely pedagogical anthropomorphisms. Because God loves a person to such an extent that it cannot be higher and which does not change in itself. People change in relation to this love. Therefore, what does it mean to be a person who receives the punishments of God here on earth? This means he is not hopeless. This means that he, faced with this or that problem, illness, sorrow, trial, collapse of life’s hopes, has a chance here on earth to improve. That’s why it is believed that those same rich people who stole, dictators and others, who are not punished by God, are actually abandoned by God? This means that they are such that punish them or not punish them - the Omniscient God knows about them - nothing will change in them.
A. Pichugin
But we also cannot decide for God and explain His behavior, explain His attitude towards us.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
We cannot, but we know one thing, we know one thing clearly: He desires salvation for everyone, including these prosperous villains. And if it leaves them in this state without visible external tests, we can naturally draw the conclusion, in many cases we may be mistaken, but in many not, that this happens precisely because this person is either washed or rolled, but from him You can't squeeze anything out anymore. Here we remember the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man at whose door Lazarus lay did not change in any way until the end of his life. That means he couldn’t change. In this sense, sometimes in order to perish, just as in order to be saved, it is enough to remain yourself. Here the rich man next to Lazarus simply remained himself - he did not do anything villainous. But he couldn’t change so as to see this unfortunate man next to him - well, as an image, of course.
A. Mitrofanova
Father Maxim, does this mean that we need to be like Lazarus in everything, who did nothing to change his own life? After all, probably now a person has much more opportunities - social elevators work, there are much more opportunities for self-realization. If the Lord visited him in the form of this or that illness or some kind of deprivation and restrictions, does that mean he needs to fold his paws and do nothing?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Oh, social elevators... We say this even though we live in Moscow or other major cities. Yes, for a huge number of the world's population there are no social elevators. What are the social elevators like in Africa?
A. Pichugin
What kind of social elevators do we have in our village?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Yes. What kind of social elevators are there in a significant part of China?
A. Pichugin
To be honest, in Moscow too...
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
And in Moscow they are very relative. You're born into a certain kind social environment- you know very well: from the first to the third floor you have an elevator, and then there are people standing there who won’t let you in. Therefore, this is all quite relative. Of course, the beggar Lazarus is an image. It’s clear, he could probably become from just a beggar the leader of a team of beggars that would walk around Palestine, and take a more active role life position. But he couldn’t even become a mediocre employee in a team of tax collectors - no one would take him on tax office because of his status. He didn't have those chances. Therefore, by and large, yes, within the limits of some kind of life play, we still have to say: I either accept a life in which I can at most become the head of a department, a doctor of philological sciences or a farm manager, and not Abramovich, an academician or a leader ministries; or, because this is not in my life, I rebel against it and get angry.
A. Pichugin
But it seems to me that there are not so many people who, having been born into a very poor family, and realizing that they have a small backlash, yes, they need to strive, of course, higher, but Abramovich is it won’t - I don’t know people who would be very worried about this. And they would dream, sleep and see that they would still earn billions someday.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Yes, but on the other hand, it seems to me that we know quite a lot of people around us who, if not to such status, would like to increase their material well-being by two or three orders of magnitude.
A. Pichugin
Yes, by one or two orders of magnitude. But there is nothing wrong with striving for this, probably for every person. Because this is some kind of personal growth that God has laid in us, among other things.
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Well, unless it becomes the ultimate priority.
A. Pichugin
Undoubtedly.
A. Mitrofanova
Can we turn to one more dimension? In our conversation, we proceed from the fact that some restrictions, deprivations or suffering - what we call “the Lord visited”, what we say that whomever the Lord loves, punishes him - they contribute to the fact that we getting better. But this doesn’t always happen. It happens that a person can become embittered, a person can lose hope, a person can ultimately lose trust in God, if he had any. And it is not always there either, because this model is not always such that the Lord certainly wishes good for me - this is a priori, this is the ultimate truth - this is also obvious and understandable to a person in life. Therefore, trials affect everyone differently. What should we do here then? And what was their meaning then, Father Maxim?
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
And the point was that in trials, and in their absence, we retain the freedom of response. Perhaps there is another important topic that we just can’t get away from. Freedom is probably what I would most like to give up. With all the declared cries that this is what one would most like to achieve. No, it would be much better if it were known for me... There are some Christian denominations that have decided that there are those who are chosen for salvation, and there are those who are chosen for destruction. In the end, their personal freedom does not exist - God’s Providence has already determined everything for them. We, as Orthodox Christians, proceed from the fact that, no, God does not save us without us. And, sending us a set of life circumstances, which at each specific moment of our existence gives us a chance for salvation, gives us the opportunity to taxi, no matter how low we are or no matter what wrong path we take; that is, by providing, relatively speaking, this turn, God does not force us to turn to it. He doesn’t force us to turn to him. There will be twists and turns for the rest of our lives. The sign will always point: there - to salvation, straight - down to hell. And this will be until the last moment of our life, until the repentance of the thief on the cross, until the confession in the hospital ward of a man who was a natural science atheist all his life. And, thank God, over the years of priestly service I have seen quite a few such people. But He doesn't force it. I also saw those at the coffin, in front of relatives crying, who said: “No! I don’t believe it, don’t!” - and left like that. This is the gift of freedom, which Christ who loves us, God who loves us, who wants us to remain like Him, also retains for us until the very end.
A. Mitrofanova
Something to think about!
A. Pichugin
Thanks a lot! Thanks for this conversation! Archpriest Maxim Kozlov was our guest today in the “Bright Evening” program. Let me remind you that Father Maxim is the rector of the Church of St. Seraphim of Sarov on Krasnopresnenskaya embankment. Alla Mitrofanova -
A. Mitrofanova
Alexey Pichugin -
A. Pichugin
Be healthy!
A. Mitrofanova
Goodbye!
Prot. Maxim Kozlov
Clarified, expanded translation:
If I love, how many will I rebuke and punish; Show your ardor and repent.”
The Greek version of the text of the passage in the first papyri: ΕΓΟ ΟΣΟΥΣ ΕΑΝ ΦΙΛΩ ΕΛΕΓΧΩ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΙΔΕΥΩ ΖΗΛΕΥΕ ΟΥΝ ΚΑΙ ΜΕΤΑΝΟΗΣΟΝ.
The literal translation of the passage from ancient Greek is as follows: : “How many times will I be? (friendly) love I rebuke and punish; show diligence and repent.”
In the Synodal Translation of the Bible, the ancient Greek word ΦΙΛΩ ( filo) translated as love, more precisely this word can be translated as friendly love. Friendly love is somewhat inferior to sacrificial love - Greek. ΑΓΑΠΗ ( agape).
Sacrificial love is the highest love. God Himself defines Himself as sacrificial love - agape(1 John 4:8,16). The question arises why, when addressing the Laodicean Church, the Lord uses the word filo- friendly love? After all, with the highest sacrificial love the Lord loved the world (John 3:16) and the Church (Eph. 5:25) - (in these passages a word derived from the word agape). At first glance, the logical conclusion suggests itself that since the Lord God loves the whole world and the Church with the highest sacrificial love, it means that He must also love the Laodicean Church. Indeed, the Lord loves the Laodicean Church with the highest sacrificial love! After all, if He had not experienced this love in His heart, He would not have been able to accept death on the cross. The Lord is always ready to show this love towards all Churches, but when people do not consciously accept His highest sacrificial love, He cannot give it to them. God cannot give a person love if the person stubbornly does not want it. For God is true to His Word. If a person denies God and His highest sacrificial love, then God denies such a person (2 Tim. 2:12,13).
This is the God-established principle of human freedom of choice, which God Himself will never violate. Mired in its sins, the Laodicean Church deliberately refused the highest sacrificial God's love, but since she still considered herself the Church of Christ, respect for Christ could still be found in her. Therefore, addressing this Church, the Lord specifically uses the word filo - friendly love, letting her understand that in her spiritually degenerate state she is able to perceive only such love - friendly and respectful, but not the highest sacrificial one. No Church and no person can remain in this state for a long time; it is impossible to develop and strengthen relationships with the Lord based only on respect for Him. This is not enough! The Lord will always encourage both the Church and the individual to desire to find the highest sacrificial love in his heart. Methods of inducement vary, including reproof and then punishment. God punishes whomever he loves (Prov. 3:12; 1 Cor. 11:32; Heb. 12:6). This punishment was also applied to the Laodicean Church (Rev. 3:19). In Hebrews 12:6 the ancient Greek manuscripts use the word “ agape" - loves, and it can be assumed that the Lord applies punishment at all stages of spiritual growth, both of the Church and of an individual Christian. But it is necessary to know and remember that the Lord never punishes for the sake of punishment itself. Moreover, God's punishment does not destroy a person's soul. Ancient Greek word ΠΑΙΔΕΥΩ (pedeo) translated in the Synodal Translation of the Bible by the word I'm punishing, can be more accurately translated as: I teach, instruct, educate, correct. Through various difficulties and problems occurring in our lives, the Lord teaches us to be faithful to Him, casting all our life's worries on Him (1 Peter 5:7), and to fight the lusts that rise up in our souls (1 Peter 2:11).
The enemy of all truth has blinded the minds of people so much that they began to look at God with fear, considering Himharsh and unforgiving. Satan inspired people that the main characteristic of God is harsh justice, and He became for them a formidable judge and a demanding lender. He presented the matter as if the Creator was only engaged in jealously watching over people and noticing all their mistakes and mistakes in order to then subject them to punishment. In order to dispel this darkness and reveal the boundless love of God to the world, Jesus came to this world and lived among people. The Son of God came from Heaven to reveal the Father to us.
(c) E. White “The Path to Christ”, chapter 1
At the second session of the eighth Field School, the Lord, through Pastor Sergei Molchanov, raised the issue of God's punishment. Faith increases when we know the Author of the Scriptures and His character. Pastor Molchanov said:
Be careful when you talk about God's punishment. The issue of punishment is very complex, like the creation of the Universe. Ignorance of the Scriptures, wrong faith, loss of God.
A good example: Job and his friends - the Lord said: “they do not know Me.”
Good question: Did Jesus punish anyone during his 33 years on earth? But He was “the image of His hypostasis” (Heb. 1:3) and He said: “I do nothing of myself” (John 8:28).
People imagine God as a world policeman who breaks arms and legs, causes accidents and accidents, saying: “God punished.”
But what punishes us?
1. Law(John 12:47-48)
2. Devil(book of Job ch. 1-2)
Jesus took our punishment upon Himself (Isaiah 53:4-5). God forgives the sinner, removes the punishment he deserved, and treats him as if he had never sinned. He accepts him with divine mercy and justifies him on the merits of Christ's righteousness. The sinner can be justified only through faith in the atonement of the dear Son of God, who became the sacrifice for the sins of a guilty world. (author’s argument: if God punishes, does that mean Christ’s sacrifice is insufficient?)
When the Lord presented His Glory to Moses, He said; “The Lord, the Lord, God, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, abounding in kindness and truth” (Exodus 34:6). He delayed the punishment of the Amorites for 400 years.
Sergei Borisovich finished the topic with a verse from the translation of the New Testament edited by Kulakov: “Whom I love, I rebuke and punish.”
Everything that Sergei Molchanov said in defense of God was built like a logical chain
in my mind, only the last verse stood out. And I began to think: “Whom I love, I punish.” At the same time, the image of a father with a face contorted with anger and rage, with a belt in his hands, immediately pops up in his mind, this is in best case scenario. And such “love” left deep trauma, resentment, anger, and vengeance in the heart. Thus forming in my mind the image of father and God. When repairing a motorcycle, Orthodox Easter, the key fell off the nut and hit the finger with terrible force, the pain was unbearable. The thought pierced my mind: “It was God who punished you for violating the holiday, raising your face to the sky and begging for forgiveness. Being in God's Church, sinning, I always expected a blow from Heaven.
Let's meditate on verse 12 of Proverbs 3: “For whom the Lord loves he disciplines and delights in, as a father treats his son.” It is clear that love and favor, punishment, does not fit into this line in any way. The root of this word, “punishes,” must be completely different. Not beating, but “admonition”, “order”.
For example: when a child goes to school, loving mother gives him an order: “son, when you cross the road, be very careful, look to the right, look to the left, be careful when you cross the road so that you don’t get hit by a car. When you come to school, don’t play around, pay attention, listen to what the teacher says, study, be a good boy.” And if you build this sentence this way “Whom the Lord loves, he punishes”, it takes on a completely different meaning, and immediately in this, both love and benevolence are manifested.
Let's go further in our thoughts. Let's take the 13th verse of the 3rd chapter of the book of Proverbs: “Blessed is the man who has gained wisdom, and the man who has gained understanding!” Show me at least one person who, through beating, through punishment, acquired reason and acquired wisdom. And by what means does a person acquire reason and wisdom? We turn to the 12th verse of the 93rd chapter of the Psalter: “Blessed is the man whom You admonish, O Lord, and instruct in Your law.” The following example: chapter 2, verse 1-2 of the book of Proverbs: “My son! If you accept my words and keep my commandments with you, so that you make your ear attentive to wisdom, and incline your heart to meditation.” Parables, sermon on the mount, a continuous order and instruction. ( Mandate is an outdated word that has fallen out of use).
They say the Bible explains itself, let's check our thoughts. Let us turn to the 11th verse of the 3rd chapter of the book of Proverbs: “The discipline of the Lord, my son, don't reject, and do not be burdened by reproaching Him.” What are we talking about here? Let's think about it. If a father picks up a belt and wants to punish his son. Does your son have a chance to escape punishment? Until the father quenches his anger, the son has no chance. And what in these verses can be rejected, the father’s order, instruction. Do not reject the law of God and it will be good for you!
Those whom I love, I rebuke and punish. So be zealous and repent
Oh, humanity! With what goodness is reproof connected!
St. Ignatius (Brianchaninov)
Even if I love them, I rebuke and punish them, said the Lord in the Revelation of St. John the Theologian. Instructed by these testimonies of the Holy Spirit and many others with which the pages of Holy Scripture are dotted, we boldly affirm: the sorrows sent to man by the Providence of God are a sure sign of man’s election by God.
Holy Scripture connects the concept of temptation with the concept of reproof: my son, it says, do not be overwhelmed by the Lord’s punishment, let us rebuke you from weakening below(Heb. 12:5) . This is clear from the above words of the Lord: Even if I love them, I rebuke and punish them. On what basis is reproof connected with temptation? On the fact that any sorrow reveals the hidden passions in the heart, setting them in motion. Before grief, a person seems calm and peaceful to himself; but when sorrow comes, then unknown passions arise and are revealed, especially anger, sadness, despondency, pride, and unbelief. It is essential and useful for the ascetic to expose the sin that nests in him in secret. Moreover, sorrows, accepted and endured as they should, strengthen faith; they show a person his weakness and bring humility, overthrowing self-conceit.
Sschmch. Cyprian of Carthage
He who caresses a sinner with flattering caresses only disposes him more towards sin and does not suppress crimes, but feeds him. But whoever exposes his brother with strict advice and instructs him together contributes to his salvation. Those whom I love, I rebuke and punish. Thus, the priest of God should not deceive with flattering services, but provide for saving medicines. The doctor who lightly only palpates the swollen convolutions of wounds is not skillful: by keeping the poison contained inside, in deep depressions, he only increases its strength. It is necessary to open the wound, cut it and, having cleared it of pus, apply a strong plaster to it. Let the patient cry out, let him scream, let him complain about unbearable pain - he will later thank him when he feels healthy.
About the fallen.
Tertullian
Those whom I love, I rebuke and punish. So be zealous and repent
So, let us try to endure what is caused by evil, so that the zeal of our patience will turn into nothing the (tempting) attempts of the enemy. If we ourselves have brought something upon ourselves - either foolishly or voluntarily - then we must patiently endure what we attribute to ourselves. And if we believe that something is sent (to us) by God, then to whom else, if not to Him, are we obliged to show patience? After all, He teaches us to thank and rejoice in the fact that we have been awarded Divine punishment: “Whom,” he says, “I love, I punish.” Oh, blessed is that servant whose correction the Lord is present with! Thus, we are encouraged from everywhere to practice patience, because we need it either as a result of our mistakes, or the wiles of evil, or the instructions of the Lord.
About patience.
Fulgentius of Russia
Consequently, God’s favor does not lead to punishment, therefore He plunges us into sorrow, strikes us with illnesses, instructs us with troubles, so that we, who sinned in the health of the body, learn to abstain from sins in illness and, neglecting God’s mercy in joy, struck by the scourge of sorrow, would be afraid His justice. This happens so that we, having acquired illness through the waste of health, through illness would achieve the benefit of health and, having been plunged into sorrow through joy, through sorrow we would return to joy. Finally, Holy Scripture testifies that God's love for us is to a greater extent manifests itself in whips and attacks. After all, it says: Do not reject the Lord’s punishment, my son, and do not be burdened by His reproof; for whom the Lord loves, he punishes(Proverbs 3:11-12); He scourges every son whom He finds again. But the Savior himself says that He loves those whom He rebukes: Who am I, - says, - I love, I rebuke and punish those. And the teaching of the apostles never ceases to proclaim that Through many tribulations we must enter the Kingdom of God(Acts 14:22) The Lord Himself also says that the narrow and cramped path is the gate leading to life.
Messages.
Caesar of Arles
Oh, unfortunate and very sad assumption! Therefore, the proud and wicked who commit criminal offenses seem blessed to you because they do not tolerate anything bad in this life? Listen to what Scripture says about these: They are not present at human work, and they are not subject to blows with other people. That is why their pride has surrounded them, their insolence and wickedness are obvious. Their insolence comes as if from fat(Ps 73:5 -7). Because in this world they are not punished at all, because for the excess of their atrocities they are preserved for eternal torment: after all, those who will need to be tortured endlessly cannot bear punishment for a short time. For the Lord, and also our God, who, according to His justice, left those without punishment, does not cease to subject His sons to various trials, in accordance with what is written: God beats every son whom he receives(Hebrews 12:6) . And one more thing: those I love, I rebuke and punish. If he beats every son whom he receives, then, therefore, whomever he does not beat, he does not receive. And if he punishes everyone he loves, then he doesn’t love anyone he doesn’t punish. And this - for this to happen - is not accomplished by the power of God, but the dissipation of those is worthy of being abandoned [for now], according to what is written: so that the unclean was still defiled, but the righteous still did righteousness(Rev 22:11) .
Sermons.
